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	<title>Comments on: Floating houses &#8211; Dealing with flooding without fighting it</title>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/comment-page-1/#comment-13018</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>But the basic fact remains that Lomberg doesn&#039;t seem to deny global warming&#039;s anothropogenic origins, which is a lot of the argument here has been about.  What he&#039;s saying is a whole &#039;nother ball of wax that I won&#039;t get into here.  Just know that, as ZZMike says, it &quot;turns into my expert is better than your expert,&quot; which makes it rather useless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the basic fact remains that Lomberg doesn&#8217;t seem to deny global warming&#8217;s anothropogenic origins, which is a lot of the argument here has been about.  What he&#8217;s saying is a whole &#8216;nother ball of wax that I won&#8217;t get into here.  Just know that, as ZZMike says, it &#8220;turns into my expert is better than your expert,&#8221; which makes it rather useless.</p>
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		<title>By: ZZMike</title>
		<link>http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/comment-page-1/#comment-13016</link>
		<dc:creator>ZZMike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/#comment-13016</guid>
		<description>&quot;He just says we shouldn’t do anything. &quot;

Not exactly.  He does say that we shouldn&#039;t run out wildly doing things that make no sense economically.  He says that we should think carefully about where to put those billions.

As far as 50 years out goes, we have absolutely no possible way of knowing what the climate will be like after 50 years.  Current trends simply do not extrapolate linearly (or even logarithmically).  Cycles happen - consider the Maunder minimum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He just says we shouldn’t do anything. &#8221;</p>
<p>Not exactly.  He does say that we shouldn&#8217;t run out wildly doing things that make no sense economically.  He says that we should think carefully about where to put those billions.</p>
<p>As far as 50 years out goes, we have absolutely no possible way of knowing what the climate will be like after 50 years.  Current trends simply do not extrapolate linearly (or even logarithmically).  Cycles happen &#8211; consider the Maunder minimum.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/comment-page-1/#comment-12955</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/#comment-12955</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s important about Lomberg is that he accepts the AGW argument.  He just says we shouldn&#039;t do anything.  That&#039;s completely different than the idea that climate change isn&#039;t caused by humans.

If one accepts Lomberg&#039;s argument, then all previous anti-anthropogenic arguments cannot be made, and the debate moves to what should be done.

One criticism of Lomberg is that he argues few lives will be lost if we don&#039;t act environmentally, but spend the money on other things.  The problem is that projections put the highest loss of life after Lomberg&#039;s 50 yr limit.  So while we may lose fewer lives over the next 50 yrs, after that the loss will greatly increase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s important about Lomberg is that he accepts the AGW argument.  He just says we shouldn&#8217;t do anything.  That&#8217;s completely different than the idea that climate change isn&#8217;t caused by humans.</p>
<p>If one accepts Lomberg&#8217;s argument, then all previous anti-anthropogenic arguments cannot be made, and the debate moves to what should be done.</p>
<p>One criticism of Lomberg is that he argues few lives will be lost if we don&#8217;t act environmentally, but spend the money on other things.  The problem is that projections put the highest loss of life after Lomberg&#8217;s 50 yr limit.  So while we may lose fewer lives over the next 50 yrs, after that the loss will greatly increase.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomas Martin</title>
		<link>http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/comment-page-1/#comment-12944</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomas Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/#comment-12944</guid>
		<description>Your argument was precisely why I posted the details about the science teacher&#039;s youtube videos on climate change and probability theory.  I can totally understand people saying &#039;we don&#039;t know enough&#039;. It&#039;s a very valid thing to say and only more research will help. However, we probably don&#039;t have time to wait if the average outcome of the majority of current research is correct. The probability is that climate change is happening and the sooner we act the bigger a difference we can make.

It&#039;s a gamble but based on all the evidence we&#039;ve seen so far (the 90% IPCC figure, for example, which is about as close you can come to a scientific consensus without the theory being 50 years old) leans the outcome very strongly towards us needing to make big changes. So although the more information we can glean from new research to clarify exactly how much warming (or even if none) is there, large volumes of data say there is going to be at least some damage so it&#039;s logical to start working to negate some of that even as we work out whether it&#039;s 0.3 degrees or 7 degrees we need to worry about. Once it moves into the political and economical realm it needs to be less about &quot;my paper vs your paper&quot; and more about &quot;consensus of every paper suggests this is the most prudent response&quot;. 

I really hope that readers of this blog find that a compelling argument as that&#039;s how a lot of science works and I feel the general public misunderstands the fact that whilst theory is being devised, it is by its very nature varied in opinion and magnitude of effect, and that the combined analysis of all of these data is more important than any one particular paper whether it leans towards one way or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument was precisely why I posted the details about the science teacher&#8217;s youtube videos on climate change and probability theory.  I can totally understand people saying &#8216;we don&#8217;t know enough&#8217;. It&#8217;s a very valid thing to say and only more research will help. However, we probably don&#8217;t have time to wait if the average outcome of the majority of current research is correct. The probability is that climate change is happening and the sooner we act the bigger a difference we can make.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a gamble but based on all the evidence we&#8217;ve seen so far (the 90% IPCC figure, for example, which is about as close you can come to a scientific consensus without the theory being 50 years old) leans the outcome very strongly towards us needing to make big changes. So although the more information we can glean from new research to clarify exactly how much warming (or even if none) is there, large volumes of data say there is going to be at least some damage so it&#8217;s logical to start working to negate some of that even as we work out whether it&#8217;s 0.3 degrees or 7 degrees we need to worry about. Once it moves into the political and economical realm it needs to be less about &#8220;my paper vs your paper&#8221; and more about &#8220;consensus of every paper suggests this is the most prudent response&#8221;. </p>
<p>I really hope that readers of this blog find that a compelling argument as that&#8217;s how a lot of science works and I feel the general public misunderstands the fact that whilst theory is being devised, it is by its very nature varied in opinion and magnitude of effect, and that the combined analysis of all of these data is more important than any one particular paper whether it leans towards one way or another.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Raven</title>
		<link>http://futurismic.com/2008/01/21/floating-houses-dealing-with-flooding-without-fighting-it/comment-page-1/#comment-12937</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Almost every article rings with “we don’t know enough about this”.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And your argument seems to come across as &quot;we don&#039;t know enough about this, so we don&#039;t need to do anything about it until we do&quot;; I&#039;ll admit this may be an oversimplification, but feel free to clarify.

The scientific method, by design, always implies that we never know as much about anything as we need to, and hence drives further research. I can accept arguments much easier from people who say &quot;OK, we don&#039;t know everything, but we&#039;ve got a lot of evidence that points to [conclusion x]&quot; than from someone who says &quot;there are elements of conjecture in [hypothesis y], therefore [conclusion x] can be ignored completely and considered bunk&quot;. As Tomas and other commenters here have pointed out, the cost of applying solutions and finding them unnecessary would be far smaller than the cost of doing nothing and later discovering we should have acted.

Re: Lomberg; I&#039;ll agree that CO2 programs are not the &quot;only possible response&quot;, but the alternative of &quot;more direct things&quot; seems a little nebulous - can you expand on that for us a bit (in the absence of a copy of the book)? I&#039;d be interested to know what could be a more direct solution to an overabundance of CO2 than cutting down the amount of it we release.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Almost every article rings with “we don’t know enough about this”.</p></blockquote>
<p>And your argument seems to come across as &#8220;we don&#8217;t know enough about this, so we don&#8217;t need to do anything about it until we do&#8221;; I&#8217;ll admit this may be an oversimplification, but feel free to clarify.</p>
<p>The scientific method, by design, always implies that we never know as much about anything as we need to, and hence drives further research. I can accept arguments much easier from people who say &#8220;OK, we don&#8217;t know everything, but we&#8217;ve got a lot of evidence that points to [conclusion x]&#8221; than from someone who says &#8220;there are elements of conjecture in [hypothesis y], therefore [conclusion x] can be ignored completely and considered bunk&#8221;. As Tomas and other commenters here have pointed out, the cost of applying solutions and finding them unnecessary would be far smaller than the cost of doing nothing and later discovering we should have acted.</p>
<p>Re: Lomberg; I&#8217;ll agree that CO2 programs are not the &#8220;only possible response&#8221;, but the alternative of &#8220;more direct things&#8221; seems a little nebulous &#8211; can you expand on that for us a bit (in the absence of a copy of the book)? I&#8217;d be interested to know what could be a more direct solution to an overabundance of CO2 than cutting down the amount of it we release.</p>
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