Comments on: South Ossetia: tell me what to think http://futurismic.com/2008/08/19/south-ossetia-tell-me-what-to-think/ Presenting the fact and fiction of tomorrow since 2001 Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:03:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DQKennard http://futurismic.com/2008/08/19/south-ossetia-tell-me-what-to-think/comment-page-1/#comment-15995 DQKennard Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:10:15 +0000 http://futurismic.com/?p=3803#comment-15995 Pseudo-democratic Georgian leaders (96 percent voter support! even more democratic than Iran or old-time Soviet democracy!), supported by US economic and military assistance, provide convenient US proxy in region, as foil against Russia. Russia-supported cadres in some Georgian regions make significant progress at breaking away from central Georgian control, and provide convenient bases to continue attempts to destabilize Georgia. Georgia, unable to allow the continued attacks and Russian influence within its borders, and increasing problem of Russia-supported breakaway states, moved to shut down the attacks and bases, especially since they were led to expect continued support from US, particularly via its very effective US-based lobbyist (who is also McCain's chief foreign policy advisor, and who was previously an important lobbyist for Iraq's Chalabi, trying -- obviously effectively -- to encourage US attack in Iraq). Russia, knowing the US couldn't really do much about it, used the Georgian attacks as an excuse to "support their allies" in the "breakaway republics" -- and as an excuse to squash the US-aided military buildup that Georgia had been doing for a number of years. And there we are. Russia gets what it wants: a reduction of the Georgian nuisance, and an opportunity to show it isn't completely powerless. McCain, in particular, along with other US politicians (who gets forced into a tough soundbite mode, because nuanced subtleties look weak to much of the public), get what they want: an opportunity to talk tough and show the apparent continued need for toughness and anti-Russian containment. Georgia and the Georgian President don't really get what they want in the short term, since they get roughed up pretty badly, but in the longer term are likely to get increased US aid of various sorts. Pseudo-democratic Georgian leaders (96 percent voter support! even more democratic than Iran or old-time Soviet democracy!), supported by US economic and military assistance, provide convenient US proxy in region, as foil against Russia. Russia-supported cadres in some Georgian regions make significant progress at breaking away from central Georgian control, and provide convenient bases to continue attempts to destabilize Georgia. Georgia, unable to allow the continued attacks and Russian influence within its borders, and increasing problem of Russia-supported breakaway states, moved to shut down the attacks and bases, especially since they were led to expect continued support from US, particularly via its very effective US-based lobbyist (who is also McCain’s chief foreign policy advisor, and who was previously an important lobbyist for Iraq’s Chalabi, trying — obviously effectively — to encourage US attack in Iraq). Russia, knowing the US couldn’t really do much about it, used the Georgian attacks as an excuse to “support their allies” in the “breakaway republics” — and as an excuse to squash the US-aided military buildup that Georgia had been doing for a number of years.

And there we are. Russia gets what it wants: a reduction of the Georgian nuisance, and an opportunity to show it isn’t completely powerless. McCain, in particular, along with other US politicians (who gets forced into a tough soundbite mode, because nuanced subtleties look weak to much of the public), get what they want: an opportunity to talk tough and show the apparent continued need for toughness and anti-Russian containment. Georgia and the Georgian President don’t really get what they want in the short term, since they get roughed up pretty badly, but in the longer term are likely to get increased US aid of various sorts.

]]> By: Tropp http://futurismic.com/2008/08/19/south-ossetia-tell-me-what-to-think/comment-page-1/#comment-15986 Tropp Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:14:53 +0000 http://futurismic.com/?p=3803#comment-15986 And here's some more background (ignore the McCain ads): http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/425nxbsv.asp And here’s some more background (ignore the McCain ads):

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/425nxbsv.asp

]]> By: Tropp http://futurismic.com/2008/08/19/south-ossetia-tell-me-what-to-think/comment-page-1/#comment-15983 Tropp Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:09:24 +0000 http://futurismic.com/?p=3803#comment-15983 Pretty good writeup of the events here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/a-new-world-order-the-week-russia-flexed-its-military-muscle-902741.html Pretty good writeup of the events here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/a-new-world-order-the-week-russia-flexed-its-military-muscle-902741.html

]]> By: SMD http://futurismic.com/2008/08/19/south-ossetia-tell-me-what-to-think/comment-page-1/#comment-15980 SMD Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:47:15 +0000 http://futurismic.com/?p=3803#comment-15980 Here is what I think, and you are free to ignore me: I don't care who started it. Russia has gone far and above necessary force here. They've made little effort to avoid civilian targets. Maybe Georgia started it, but the evidence looks like Russia has been aggressively pushing for this war. Georgia never stood a chance, and instead of just moving into South Ossetia and stopping the fighting there, Russia is using its force to get what it wants. Don't forget there are also two oil pipelines that move through Georgia, and Russia has a financial stake in this. There's a lot going on here and it's all bad. Here is what I think, and you are free to ignore me:
I don’t care who started it. Russia has gone far and above necessary force here. They’ve made little effort to avoid civilian targets. Maybe Georgia started it, but the evidence looks like Russia has been aggressively pushing for this war. Georgia never stood a chance, and instead of just moving into South Ossetia and stopping the fighting there, Russia is using its force to get what it wants. Don’t forget there are also two oil pipelines that move through Georgia, and Russia has a financial stake in this. There’s a lot going on here and it’s all bad.

]]> By: Sam http://futurismic.com/2008/08/19/south-ossetia-tell-me-what-to-think/comment-page-1/#comment-15976 Sam Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:10:01 +0000 http://futurismic.com/?p=3803#comment-15976 I'm not entirely certain there are clearly defined "good guys" and "bad guys" in this situation. This applies to a lot of wars, for that matter. I'm pretty certain the civilians on both sides would rather have had a peaceful week and I'm not convinced the enlisted in either army wouldn't rather have been taking a nice vacation somewhere. I’m not entirely certain there are clearly defined “good guys” and “bad guys” in this situation. This applies to a lot of wars, for that matter. I’m pretty certain the civilians on both sides would rather have had a peaceful week and I’m not convinced the enlisted in either army wouldn’t rather have been taking a nice vacation somewhere.

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